Forbidden Relationship

I know of a situation where a boy and a girl are very much in love, and even though they are both 18 and ready to leave for college, they both want to continue their three-year relationship. However, the girl’s father is very much opposed to the relationship, on the grounds that he doesn’t believe it is serious and the boy is atheist (unlike the girl’s Christian family).

He is now making a genuine effort to find God in his life. But still, he and the girl’s father do not get along very well. At one point, the father gave his daughter an ultimatum: choose to be faithful to your family first or get out of the house to pursue this relationship. He tries his best to suppress all forms of communication between the two. He even has presented her with contact information of other boys whom he would prefer that she date and eventually marry.

What I want to know is, what would Jesus do if he was the father in this case? Would he continue to suppress this relationship because he does not find it viable or to his satisfaction? Or would he support this form of love by supporting his daughter’s choice?

First, we want to apologize for taking so long to answer this question.  I consider this the most challenging question we have received so far because there are so many factors involved, but we’ll do our best.  I’m going to respond to this by copying the question again below and interjecting my comments where appropriate.

I know of a situation where a boy and a girl are very much in love, and even though they are both 18 and ready to leave for college, they both want to continue their three-year relationship. However, the girl’s father is very much opposed to the relationship, on the grounds that he doesn’t believe it is serious and the boy is atheist (unlike the girl’s Christian family).

One question I have is where the girl stands in regard to her faith.  You mentioned her family is Christian, but where does she stand?  If she is a committed Christian, then her father has a point that for a Christian, dating a non-Christian is generally not a wise decision.  I’m not saying it is impossible, but it does tend to make things very complicated.

I’m also wondering if the father sees signs of an unhealthy relationship (is the relationship drawing the girl away from her relationship to the Lord?  Is there sexual immorality?  Is the relationship unhealthy in other ways?)  Or is it purely the faith issue? – which is a significant issue in itself.

He is now making a genuine effort to find God in his life.

This is great!  But one of the tricky things about this kind of situation is that choosing to follow Christ is a huge decision and any person doing so needs to know they are doing it because they want to, not because they feel pressure from a girlfriend, a girlfriend’s father, etc.

But still, he and the girl’s father do not get along very well. At one point, the father gave his daughter an ultimatum: choose to be faithful to your family first or get out of the house to pursue this relationship. He tries his best to suppress all forms of communication between the two. He even has presented her with contact information of other boys whom he would prefer that she date and eventually marry.

Even though (in my opinion) the father has a valid point, he does seem to be acting strangely (specifically, the giving of other boys’ contact info).  If he wants to give her that kind of ultimatum, that is his choice as her father, but he must realize the consequences it will have upon his relationship with his daughter.  I don’t see this so much as a question of being faithful to the family, but more an issue of what choice will enable her to more faithfully walk with Christ?

What I want to know is, what would Jesus do if he was the father in this case? Would he continue to suppress this relationship because he does not find it viable or to his satisfaction? Or would he support this form of love by supporting his daughter’s choice?

As I mentioned above, I would probably need more information to be able to even begin speculating what Jesus would do.  Jesus loves us perfectly, and while His love does not suppress us, in His love He does warn us against making bad choices.  He does this not because He wants us to be lonely, or to not have fun.  As I’m sure you are aware, relationships can bring great joy and they can also bring great pain.  If God does disapprove of a relationship, it is only because He does not want to see you get hurt in the short or long term.

I believe one of the greatest difficulties for young people today is to wait patiently for the right person.  I would encourage your friend to speak with a godly older person who she trusts and can talk with candidly without fear of being judged harshly.  With their help, honestly evaluate the relationship and see if it is leading her toward godliness or away from God.

In closing, let me say that God does desire a great mate for every one of his children who desire one, so it is not wrong for your friends to desire this.  If the relationship is healthy and the only issue is the faith issue, I would let them know that it will be challenging to continue, but not impossible.  If it is unhealthy, then some hard decisions need to be made.

Questions?

Hello readers!

Sorry that I haven’t written in awhile, but does anyone have any questions for me to try and answer? If so, please send them along!

Guest Post by Chris

Hey there Holy Relationship readers!  In honor of our 7 year anniversary I thought it would be nice if I wrote a little post to go along with Eunice’s.  So here are 7 of my favorite things about my wife:

1.  She still really does laugh at my jokes.  This is no trivial matter.  To have 7 strong years of marriage you need a good sense of humor and lots of laughter.  Good thing I’m so funny!  Haha…see, now you guys are getting a taste of the funniness that keeps our family laughing through the years.  (Don’t worry, I’m not always this corny =)

2.  In our entire 7 years of marriage I can honestly say I have never doubted Eunice’s commitment, devotion, or love for me or our family.

3.  She has a lot of wisdom in areas I do not.

4.  She encourages, supports, and affirms me in all of my roles as husband, father, and pastor.

5.  She sticks to the budget and never overspends, ever!  This is no trivial matter.

6.  She is always seeking to grow as a woman of God, a wife, mother, homeschooler, etc.

7.  After 7 years there is still no other woman I want to share the rest of my life with.

Happy Anniversary, My Love!

Chris and I have been married 7 years tomorrow!  It is amazing how quickly time flies!  In celebration of our marriage, I wanted to write a post.  7 things I am grateful to God for in my marriage.  This will be in random order…

1.  That I still genuinely laugh at all of Chris’ jokes!

2.  That he really is my best friend.

3.  That he still tells me that I am beautiful.

4.  That he tells me he loves me everyday.

5.  That he knows that my love language is quality time and he intentionally spends time with me almost daily.

6.  That he leads me spiritually.  Chris never makes me feel guilty or condemned when my spiritual life (mainly I am talking about reading the Bible and praying) is lacking.  But watching him read, pray, and fast provokes me (in a good way) to want to do the same.

7.  That I am still completely in love with Chris.

Fireproof

Anyone who has talked with me in the last few weeks has heard me raving about this new movie, Fireproof. It is a Christian movie that is currently in theaters and it is AWESOME! It stars Kirk Cameron. It is about a fireman whose marriage is failing. He is on the brink of divorce, but God redeems his life and his marriage. I HIGHLY recommend this movie to everyone. But don’t go see it expecting this amazing Hollywood production; go to watch a wholesome and uplifting movie.

Chris and I went on a date to see Fireproof . The whole movie had me on the verge of tears as you can really see how the enemy gets in and seeks to destroy marriage. But God has a different plan! God has a plan to prosper your marriage, He has a plan to give you hope that your marriage can succeed! (Jeremiah 29:11).

But my favorite part of the movie was the integrity during the film making process. There was a kissing scene that honestly had me freaking out at the end. Kirk Cameron is kissing his wife in the movie. I know that actors kiss other actors during film production all of the time, but this is a Christian movie with Christian actors! I was horrified! Chris kept reassuring me that there must be some explanation.

Chris came home that night and found a podcast about the movie. They reveal that Kirk Cameron is not actually kissing the co-star of the film, but his real life wife! They flew her in as a double to do the scene. How awesome is that? Apparently, Kirk Cameron made a commitment the he would never kiss another woman in acting. Here is an interview with him on MSNBC where he discusses this.

I respect Kirk Cameron so much for his commitment to put God and his family above his career.

Profound Thought

I just wanted to share a profound quote I heard once to get you thinking. It was in our pre-marital counseling material, “Called Together.”

“Don’t marry someone you can live with, marry someone you can’t live without!”

Good stuff, huh?

Attraction as outreach?

How do you feel about a Christian bringing a friend (who they are not interested in) to church, knowing that the person will go because they like the person? In the hopes that they can find friends and fellowship in the proper gender group?

This is a hard question to answer. I am not horribly opposed to doing this as long as you are CLEARLY not leading that person on. Please refer to my previous post on how to say “no” to a good friend who is interested in dating you. As long as you have clearly told that person “No, I don’t want a romantic relationship with you…” and you keep good, clear boundaries with him/her I think it is okay.

I will give some examples to elaborate on what “good, clear boundaries” might look like. You could invite that person to church, but I would not carpool with them to church more than once. You could hang out with them after church IN A GROUP so that they could get to know some friends of their same gender group. But even this, I would caution you not to do often. That first week you bring them I would highly suggest that you introduce them to a trusted friend or cell/small group leader (of their same gender) that could help them get to know others at church.

Overall, I think your heart is in the right place (for them to get to know Jesus) but please be wise with your actions so that this person is not misled into thinking you like them.

My Courtship

Can you tell a bit about how you and Pastor Chris started courting?

Chris and I first met standing in line for a Hillsong Concert in NJ (Fall 1999). My friend and I stood behind him (and his friends) and my friend happened to know Chris, so he introduced us. Our first meeting was not too significant. But after the concert, I told my friend (Caroline) that I had met one of her old youth group friends, Chris. And oddly when I told her this she said, “hey, sooooo what do you think about Chris?” I was like, “huh? what do you mean what do I think about Chris…all we said was ‘hi’ to each other?”

Then throughout that year I would see Chris at random church conferences in the state. We would say “hi” to each other and nothing more. But every time I saw Chris I would tell Caroline, “hey I saw Chris again…” and each time she would say, “hey, so what do you think about Chris?”

Then one day I was at work and Caroline asked me if I would go with her to a play in Princeton. I had nothing to do, so I went with her. As we were driving down to Princeton, Caroline said, “hey, uhhh, since we’re going to Princeton, I told Chris we would call him to hang out…” Chris was attending Princeton Seminary at the time. I was a bit suspicious of Caroline’s intentions but I didn’t make much of it since we were going to be visiting other Harvest people as well.

That night turned out to be pretty cool because Chris was in the middle of a 40 day liquid fast, post The Call DC. I had also been to The Call, so he and I were able to converse about that. But I was VERY impressed to see that he was fasting. I had completed a 40 day liquid fast about 4 months prior and at the time, I had never personally met anyone who had fasted that long, especially a guy (who by the way loves to eat very much!)! So Chris and I had lots to talk about that night:) I remember telling God that I would really like it if my future husband had a fasted lifestyle. So I guess after that night Chris seemed more appealing to me than he had in the past:)

Then Caroline started inviting Chris to our church’s Tuesday night prayer meetings. I would chat with him for a couple of minutes each week and began to realize that he and I had a lot to talk about…then things began to progress. There was a conference at our church and Chris came. He sat in the back of each session and I sat in the front because I had the honor of helping the speaker. But strangely enough, at every break I found Chris up front next to me. At this point it was pretty obvious that he had interest in me. It was not only obvious to me though; it was obvious to everyone at church.

At this point I was beginning to freak out because I had had my heart broken because of shady relationships in the past. By “shady relationships” I mean friendships throughout my singlehood where I was “best friends” with a guy and although it seemed that they liked me as well, they didn’t. So I was very scared that I was going to begin liking Chris and that he was going to break my heart. The fear of getting my heart broken again was so overwhelming that I literally vomitted one morning because of it. That is when I enlisted Pastor Sam’s help (I was interning with P.Sam at the time)…

I told Pastor Sam at a meeting about how I was feeling fearful because I wasn’t clear on what was going on with Chris. P. Sam told me that he was meaning to speak with Chris because he was feeling concerned of Chris’ intentions towards me as well. P. Sam then set up a time for them to meet. Chris was surprised but happy that P.Sam approached him because in prayer, the Lord told Chris to get P.Sam’s blessing before asking me out.

P.Sam and Chris met about 3-4 times for P.Sam to get to know him and for P.Sam to feel good about where Chris was spiritually and emotionally. So at the end of that time P.Sam gave Chris his blessing to ask me out.

When Chris asked me out one of the things he said was , “Eunice, you have a great call of God on your life…it could be greater than mine and I just want to help you fulfill it.” I was pretty shocked considering most of the guys I had liked in the past were intimidated by my strong nature. One question I asked Chris that day was, “when do you see yourself getting married?” I didn’t necessarily mean to me, but I wanted to see if he saw marriage in the near future. He told me in about a year and half. That answer was acceptable to me because I did not want to be with a guy that would be dragging me along for a couple of years before he was ready to get married. So I said “yes” and I have never once regretted my answer:)

Needless to say, Caroline was my maid of honor in our wedding…thanks Caroline! What a blessing you have been in my life!

More on our actual courtship later…

Not interested

What is the best (and I guess, most Godly) way to let someone know that as great as you think they are, you’re not that interested in them? You know, without hurting their feelings? - Anonymous

This is a great question! Romans 12:10b says to “Honor one another above yourselves.” I think the best way to do this in this situation is to just be completely honest with them, by saying “no” from the beginning. I also think you should affirm their good qualities so that they aren’t down on themselves.

This can be a tricky situation, especially if it is a good friend. Once you know they like you, even things you once did only as a friend can now be misinterpreted as romantic interest. This may sound funny, but I think one of the WORST things you could do is remain good friends simply because it can end up as the equivalent of leading them on, even if that is not your intent. Once you know someone likes you, and you know the feeling is not mutual, you should honor them by keeping a distance so that there is a clear action backing up your “No”. Otherwise you may give someone false hope that they have a chance with you when they don’t. Please don’t do this! It might be painful for them at the time, especially if they are a good friend, but in the end both God and your friend are honored.

Best Friends?

Do you think guys and girls can be best (or very very close) friends without being romantically involved? – Anonymous

This is a question that my friends and I would always bounce around in high school and college. My answer after years of thought (and heartbreak) is “no!” I don’t think a guy and a girl can be best friends without (at some point in the friendship) someone growing to like the other person romantically.

In my past experience (before my husband), I would be best friends with certain guys thinking it was a totally harmless friendship. In the beginning I would always consider the guy “like a brother,” and over time I would find myself liking them…A LOT! But the guys never liked me back enough for us to be in a relationship and it was heartbreaking for me. I share my story because I know that it resonates with so many people who have had the same experience. If this story does not resonate with you, maybe it is because the story is flipped and your best friend is the one who likes you rather than you liking him/her.

Proverbs 4:23 says, “Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.” If you are “best friends” with someone who you have romantic feelings for, it’s a poor way of “guarding your heart.” The hard part about being best friends with someone when you like them is that every time they call, or each time you hang out, etc., you have the hope that your feelings are being reciprocated. But something my husband told me is that just because a guy calls you everyday DOES NOT necessarily mean that he likes you. It might just mean that he is calling you everyday, nothing more.

Another thought: if you find out that your best friend likes you and you don’t like them, but you continue to try to be friends, I think this is misleading and has the potential to cause tremendous hurt. This is what I would call leading the other person on. This dishonors your friend and God.

In closing, God gave men and women hormones. That is a good thing! God made us sexual beings, but He gave us our sexuality to glorify Him. This means that we save our hearts and our bodies for our spouse and no one else! When you are married, your best friend should be your spouse. When you have a best friend of the opposite sex before marriage, eventually things will get too clouded and potentially hurtful for one or both of you.